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	<title>Comments on: A working-class hero is something to be</title>
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	<link>http://whiteperil.com/2010/02/04/a-working-class-hero-is-something-to-be/</link>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://whiteperil.com/2010/02/04/a-working-class-hero-is-something-to-be/comment-page-1/#comment-3978</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiteperil.com/?p=2588#comment-3978</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Eric&lt;/b&gt;, yes, nothing like letting off steam (or just bubbles).

&lt;b&gt;Sarah&lt;/b&gt;, I think your boys may be a slightly different case---not just because of the sci-fi-parents thing, but also because of their having been reared American, not half-and-half.  (I mean, do they consider themselves Portuguese nationals in some way?)  The people I was describing are, for example, like a woman I know whose father is Chinese (as in, from China) and whose mother is Japanese.  She herself was brought up partially in Tokyo but educated mostly in the States, including high school and college.  She&#039;s aware that the Japanese and Chinese don&#039;t consider her one of them, but she doesn&#039;t feel entirely like an American, either, and I find it hard to blame her, really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Eric</b>, yes, nothing like letting off steam (or just bubbles).</p>
<p><b>Sarah</b>, I think your boys may be a slightly different case&#8212;not just because of the sci-fi-parents thing, but also because of their having been reared American, not half-and-half.  (I mean, do they consider themselves Portuguese nationals in some way?)  The people I was describing are, for example, like a woman I know whose father is Chinese (as in, from China) and whose mother is Japanese.  She herself was brought up partially in Tokyo but educated mostly in the States, including high school and college.  She&#8217;s aware that the Japanese and Chinese don&#8217;t consider her one of them, but she doesn&#8217;t feel entirely like an American, either, and I find it hard to blame her, really.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Scheie</title>
		<link>http://whiteperil.com/2010/02/04/a-working-class-hero-is-something-to-be/comment-page-1/#comment-3976</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Scheie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiteperil.com/?p=2588#comment-3976</guid>
		<description>Thanks Sean. I need to get &quot;worked into a froth&quot; more often, for just as it improves a cappuccino or a beer, a good froth does wonders for the quality of life!

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Sean. I need to get &#8220;worked into a froth&#8221; more often, for just as it improves a cappuccino or a beer, a good froth does wonders for the quality of life!</p>
<p> <img src='http://whiteperil.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://whiteperil.com/2010/02/04/a-working-class-hero-is-something-to-be/comment-page-1/#comment-3963</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiteperil.com/?p=2588#comment-3963</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Joe.  I spent eleven years living in Tokyo, which of course is just a little farther from Allentown, PA, than New York is, so I can empathize.  And yes, now that I&#039;m back in the States, I visit my family once every month and a half or so, not once a year as I used to.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Joe.  I spent eleven years living in Tokyo, which of course is just a little farther from Allentown, PA, than New York is, so I can empathize.  And yes, now that I&#8217;m back in the States, I visit my family once every month and a half or so, not once a year as I used to.  <img src='http://whiteperil.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Joe G.</title>
		<link>http://whiteperil.com/2010/02/04/a-working-class-hero-is-something-to-be/comment-page-1/#comment-3962</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiteperil.com/?p=2588#comment-3962</guid>
		<description>Linked over from Classical Values. Appreciate your thoughts.

Oh, to be only a two-hour drive from my hometown! Would take me all day, and $400. 

For those of us who cannot so easily, I hope you return frequently and describe the distance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linked over from Classical Values. Appreciate your thoughts.</p>
<p>Oh, to be only a two-hour drive from my hometown! Would take me all day, and $400. </p>
<p>For those of us who cannot so easily, I hope you return frequently and describe the distance.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://whiteperil.com/2010/02/04/a-working-class-hero-is-something-to-be/comment-page-1/#comment-3961</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiteperil.com/?p=2588#comment-3961</guid>
		<description>Sean,

As you know I understand the &quot;children of binational families&quot; all too well, though in my case it could be argued my children are solidly American and my own national confusion is self inflicted.  My mom chides me for the perceived confusion in my children often enough.  &quot;Those poor boys don&#039;t belong anywhere.&quot;  I don&#039;t see it that way.  OTOH I belong to a sub group, sf/f writers who DO NOT belong anywhere.  Heck, sf/f fans tend to be their family&#039;s tragedy, if that makes sense.  We&#039;re just odd people.

In that sense, if Alvin Toffler was right -- and I have no reason to think he was not -- as identities and classes continue to splinter, we&#039;re going to have a lot more of these.

Still on the other hand -- shush, I DO write science fiction and fantasy! I&#039;m allowed multiple hands -- I see no conflict PERSONALY between this fragmentation and an American identity.  I think -- obviously -- Americans are possibly the most suited modern society to allowing this sort of fragmentation to function.

Still (on the fourth hand) the more fragmented society becomes, the more one seems to have a new-romantic fascination with societies that Americans perceive as simpler and more cohesive than the US&#039;s.  (The downside of that conformity never being fully understood.  Unless you grow up in it as a native, and even then you can romanticize it a posteriory as so many of my fellow expatriates do.)   So it makes makes perfect sense for Obama to have an almost-crush on Indonesia and Kenya, complicated in the case of Kenya by the whole romanticization of Africa thing.

What can we do?  I don&#039;t know.  Is it too late to hope he learns to know himself and compensate for these subconscious biases?  Or is asking self-awareness of a politican too tall an order?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean,</p>
<p>As you know I understand the &#8220;children of binational families&#8221; all too well, though in my case it could be argued my children are solidly American and my own national confusion is self inflicted.  My mom chides me for the perceived confusion in my children often enough.  &#8220;Those poor boys don&#8217;t belong anywhere.&#8221;  I don&#8217;t see it that way.  OTOH I belong to a sub group, sf/f writers who DO NOT belong anywhere.  Heck, sf/f fans tend to be their family&#8217;s tragedy, if that makes sense.  We&#8217;re just odd people.</p>
<p>In that sense, if Alvin Toffler was right &#8212; and I have no reason to think he was not &#8212; as identities and classes continue to splinter, we&#8217;re going to have a lot more of these.</p>
<p>Still on the other hand &#8212; shush, I DO write science fiction and fantasy! I&#8217;m allowed multiple hands &#8212; I see no conflict PERSONALY between this fragmentation and an American identity.  I think &#8212; obviously &#8212; Americans are possibly the most suited modern society to allowing this sort of fragmentation to function.</p>
<p>Still (on the fourth hand) the more fragmented society becomes, the more one seems to have a new-romantic fascination with societies that Americans perceive as simpler and more cohesive than the US&#8217;s.  (The downside of that conformity never being fully understood.  Unless you grow up in it as a native, and even then you can romanticize it a posteriory as so many of my fellow expatriates do.)   So it makes makes perfect sense for Obama to have an almost-crush on Indonesia and Kenya, complicated in the case of Kenya by the whole romanticization of Africa thing.</p>
<p>What can we do?  I don&#8217;t know.  Is it too late to hope he learns to know himself and compensate for these subconscious biases?  Or is asking self-awareness of a politican too tall an order?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://whiteperil.com/2010/02/04/a-working-class-hero-is-something-to-be/comment-page-1/#comment-3956</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiteperil.com/?p=2588#comment-3956</guid>
		<description>He seems to feel sorry for plenty of people who don&#039;t necessarily need it, so I don&#039;t see why you shouldn&#039;t return the favor, Donna.  (BTW, I never got a chance to post about it, but I thought your &lt;a href=&quot;http://opiningonline.com/2010/01/29/dadgum-furriners/ rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;post&lt;/a&gt; about whether foreigners should endorse candidates for office here was interesting. Not exactly this topic, but related in the sense that Obama&#039;s foreign orientation is an issue.  Personally, I&#039;m less bothered by speeches, which are public, than by funding, which may not be.  But that&#039;s a topic for another day.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He seems to feel sorry for plenty of people who don&#8217;t necessarily need it, so I don&#8217;t see why you shouldn&#8217;t return the favor, Donna.  (BTW, I never got a chance to post about it, but I thought your <a href="http://opiningonline.com/2010/01/29/dadgum-furriners/ rel="nofollow">post</a> about whether foreigners should endorse candidates for office here was interesting. Not exactly this topic, but related in the sense that Obama&#8217;s foreign orientation is an issue.  Personally, I&#8217;m less bothered by speeches, which are public, than by funding, which may not be.  But that&#8217;s a topic for another day.)</p>
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		<title>By: Donna B.</title>
		<link>http://whiteperil.com/2010/02/04/a-working-class-hero-is-something-to-be/comment-page-1/#comment-3955</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiteperil.com/?p=2588#comment-3955</guid>
		<description>Were Obama not our President, I&#039;d feel quite sorry for him. I imagine that would anger him. He&#039;s a little boy, lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were Obama not our President, I&#8217;d feel quite sorry for him. I imagine that would anger him. He&#8217;s a little boy, lost.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://whiteperil.com/2010/02/04/a-working-class-hero-is-something-to-be/comment-page-1/#comment-3952</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiteperil.com/?p=2588#comment-3952</guid>
		<description>And both &lt;b&gt;Sarah&lt;/b&gt; and &lt;b&gt;Leslie&lt;/b&gt;, President Obama&#039;s problem finding a stable identity is shared by a lot of children of bi-national families who grow up in several different countries, I think.  At least, that seemed to be the case among those I met in Tokyo.  (A lot of people with that background end up going into foreign service or international business and hopping the globe for most of their lives.)  You can&#039;t blame them for feeling adrift for a while, especially when, as in Obama&#039;s case, the American and Kenyan heritage (and later Indonesian upbringing for a time) are so at odds with each other in terms of what life&#039;s supposed to be like.  But it doesn&#039;t seem too much to ask of the President of the United States that he ultimately decide to come down firmly on the side of the values and interests of this country.  I&#039;m not sure he has.  The idea that he&#039;s a closet conservative Muslim sounds like nonsense to me, but the idea that he glorifies post-War EU-style social democracy makes very much sense indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And both <b>Sarah</b> and <b>Leslie</b>, President Obama&#8217;s problem finding a stable identity is shared by a lot of children of bi-national families who grow up in several different countries, I think.  At least, that seemed to be the case among those I met in Tokyo.  (A lot of people with that background end up going into foreign service or international business and hopping the globe for most of their lives.)  You can&#8217;t blame them for feeling adrift for a while, especially when, as in Obama&#8217;s case, the American and Kenyan heritage (and later Indonesian upbringing for a time) are so at odds with each other in terms of what life&#8217;s supposed to be like.  But it doesn&#8217;t seem too much to ask of the President of the United States that he ultimately decide to come down firmly on the side of the values and interests of this country.  I&#8217;m not sure he has.  The idea that he&#8217;s a closet conservative Muslim sounds like nonsense to me, but the idea that he glorifies post-War EU-style social democracy makes very much sense indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://whiteperil.com/2010/02/04/a-working-class-hero-is-something-to-be/comment-page-1/#comment-3951</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiteperil.com/?p=2588#comment-3951</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Leslie&lt;/b&gt;, you&#039;re right:  it&#039;s like having Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick as president, huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Leslie</b>, you&#8217;re right:  it&#8217;s like having Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick as president, huh?</p>
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		<title>By: Leslie</title>
		<link>http://whiteperil.com/2010/02/04/a-working-class-hero-is-something-to-be/comment-page-1/#comment-3949</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiteperil.com/?p=2588#comment-3949</guid>
		<description>Sarah—literature, health policy, social history, cultural studies, etc. Your &quot;ALL&quot; is so correct from my end, the editing. (At the Press, when people could not understand why our books and journals did not sell at the local &quot;alternative&quot; bookstore, I would ask them: so, which ones have you bought lately?) What I continue to find to be so pathetically ironic is that these writers are part of the educated class, yet they haven&#039;t a clue as to what makes this the New World and want so desperately to go back in time to the Old World, despite its obvious unraveling.

By the way, I&#039;ve read your work on this post, and may I also say that it&#039;s really good. And how nice that technology enables me to notice—and note—on that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah—literature, health policy, social history, cultural studies, etc. Your &#8220;ALL&#8221; is so correct from my end, the editing. (At the Press, when people could not understand why our books and journals did not sell at the local &#8220;alternative&#8221; bookstore, I would ask them: so, which ones have you bought lately?) What I continue to find to be so pathetically ironic is that these writers are part of the educated class, yet they haven&#8217;t a clue as to what makes this the New World and want so desperately to go back in time to the Old World, despite its obvious unraveling.</p>
<p>By the way, I&#8217;ve read your work on this post, and may I also say that it&#8217;s really good. And how nice that technology enables me to notice—and note—on that!</p>
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